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Orangetown Board Calls for Pension, Arbitration Reform (VIDEO)

The Orangetown Town Council passed a resolution Tuesday calling for the state to reform the arbitration process related to contract negotiations and state pension system.

The Orangetown Board went through many revisions of its Memorializing Resolution regarding the PBA and binding arbitration.

"The main point is to put on the table for all to see the kind of predicament the town and all towns face when doing contract work with a bargaining unit, in this case, the PBA (Patrolmen's Benevolent Association)," Orangetown Supervisor Andy Stewart said. "Binding arbitration gives the town a choice of paying more money or paying more money in a time when nobody else is getting more money. A lot of people have been stuck at a salary level for a number of years. It's resulting in a situation where there is a different economy associated with municipal labor....it puts us in a tough spot. The way state law guides the arbitration process doesn’t' give us the opportunity to negotiate from a position based on the reality of the situation we face."

The town council is expected to vote soon on a proposed settlement in its negotiation with Orangetown police, possibly within the next two weeks. It may have come to a vote Tuesday, but Councilman Paul Valentine was absent as expected and the board wants to have a full council present for the vote.

The proposed five-year contract would include retroactive 2.25 percent raises for 2011 with Orangetown police seeing a 2.25 percent raise for 2012, 2.35 percent raise for 2013, 2.45 percent raise for 2014 and 2.50 percent raise for 2015. One reason Councilmen Valentine, Denis Troy and Tom Diviny have indicated their support of the settlement is that the alternative seems to be binding arbitration, which would likely leave the town paying for even higher raises.

"Arbitration is not a fair fight," Diviny said. "It is fighting with one hand behind your back. A lot of people say we should fight the PBA and unions and go to arbitration. It's not so easy when Ramapo is giving out (four percent raises) and Clarkstown is giving two and a half. We are trying to get the best deal. WE could go to arbitration and do better, but based on the decisions I have read and what other towns have, it's not a fair fight."

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The resolution passed by a 4-0 vote Tuesday (with Valentine absent) calls for the state to take two actions. One, which had been in the earlier version of the resolution, was to reform the arbitration process.

Another was added later in the day Tuesday. That one called for a change in the state pension system that would have all employees contribute three percent of their salary every year regardless of how long they have been in the job. The state made a change in 1999 so that employees only pay three percent for the first 10 years, then nothing. 

Troy explained that at the time, the pension system was "flush" due to the strength of the stock market. The towns were not putting money into the pension system at all at the time. Troy has been critical of the change made in 1999 in the past even though he is a union member who does not have to contribute to the pension fund because of it.

"I'm a union member with the county," Troy said. "I should be paying. Your first 10 years, you may be paid a lot less money and you are paying three percent of whatever that is. But for years 11 to 30 or 25, you pay nothing.

"What happened in the last seven or eight years as the stock market took a beating, the state controller had to keep the pension system whole. It is a mandate in terms of what level it has to be funded. The municipalities were the ones who made up the difference. Right now, this year, we're paying between 18 and 21 percent of whatever we pay in salaries for pensions. It makes no sense to me whatsoever that the taxpayers should be making up the difference to keep the pension system whole when an ill-considered law was passed in 1999 and nobody in the state senate or the state assembly, or the state controller, has seen fit to change it."

Troy argued that the pension system should be the first thing to change to help the towns stay under the state-mandated tax levy cap.

"If (Sen.) David Carlucci (D-Rockland), (Assemblywoman) Ellen Jaffee (D-Suffern) and (Assemblyman) Ken Zebrowski (D-New City) are serious about getting us help here, this is one of the things that should be right at the top of the list," Troy said. "I talked about this when we were doing the two percent cap in December. It's one thing for somebody on Mt. Olympus to say you are going to come in at two percent. That's great. But you have to give us the tools to come in at two percent."

The full resolution before the addition of the paragraph regarding pensions can be found in the copy of the agenda for Tuesday's meeting attached to this report.

Check back with Patch later today for more from Tuesday's Orangetown Town Board meeting. 

Mike June 13, 2012 at 02:27 pm
LesDolt, please stop with the straw man arguments that asking our Town leadership to get OPD costs under control somehow means we devalue the individual officers. For the record, we don't. I respect each and every one that it is out there doing their jobs. I equally respect other Town workers who make significantly less for doing their jobs too. The arbitration process never worked even in times when the Town was "flush" with cash. The system itself is corrupted. If it cannot be discarded, then at a minimum, the state needs to expand the geographic area of comparable salaries to include the bigest neighbor (15 miles to our SE, NYC) and include teh salaries of NYPD. Second, I agree with Maureen and others- if this cannot be acomplished, then we need to reduce the OPD workforce. BTW, based upon FBI crime statistics the "crime" rate in Town has actually decreased over the past few years even as the OPD work force has decreased.
Think4urself June 13, 2012 at 03:12 pm
Where's LesDolt's responses to the other blogger's comments about the OPD? Just shows he was spewing pablum and lies and can't defend his unpopular position when confronted with the truth supported by facts.
LesDoIt June 13, 2012 at 04:03 pm
What lies am I spewing? The Town Supervisor said we pay our police "significantly less" then neighboring towns. I stated residence don't have much more to give. I thought sitting down with the PBA prior to last minute contract negotiations to finds savings is a better tactic. I know its fun to get on here with pitchforks and torches but I don't think it will produce the results we will be looking for in the long run.
Mike June 13, 2012 at 04:23 pm
LesDolt- the issue is the Town has NO, ZERO, NADA leverage with these negotiations because of teh binding arbitration process that is in place. To be honest, why would the OPD union negotiate and accept an offer from the Town when in arbitration it will likely get more? And this is the crux of the problem. If this corrupted system is not fixed, then the only viable alternative left to the Town is as others have already indicated- reduction of the work force not only in the OPD, but with other Town departments as well.
Think4urself June 13, 2012 at 04:31 pm
Basically," the Emperor has no clothes" when it comes to justifying OPD and other police salaries in Rockland County. The system that rewarded police is broken and unsustainable. LesDolt- You still haven't answered what the OPD do all day that justifies these generous salaries . Also, you seem to be vacillating when confronted by bloggers who aren't sheeple and drink the koolaide. BTW, pitch fork and torches-nice, over the top hyperbole! How about combining police departments to maximize efficiency thereby saving taxpayers money. No pitchforks or torches needed, just courage and common sense.
LesDoIt June 13, 2012 at 05:02 pm
I have no problem consolidating police departments or school districts for that matter. If you believe this so strongly go to the town board and tell them this is a route to savings you think they should pursue. My understanding is the people want their own police department, but if it was put to a vote I would be voting with you. As far as what "justifies these generous salaries" I could not give an answer that would satisfy you because you clearly do not like the OPD for some reason.
Mike when you said we don't devalue the individual officer I guess Think4urself was not included in the we.
Think4urself June 13, 2012 at 05:20 pm
LesDolt- You're changing the argument by putting me on the defensive about the OPD. I just asked a simple question. What do they do all day?
Think4urself June 13, 2012 at 05:50 pm
The silence is deafening, which speaks volumes.
Ed Olsen June 13, 2012 at 06:12 pm
Find a way to write tickets so to off set the outragous pay and benifits they recieve.
No private sector worker has the gold plated packege they get !! The sad thing is we are the ones paying them !!! and have no power to correct it !! This has nothing to do with the Cop it is the system that is broke !!!
MakestheMedicineGoDown June 13, 2012 at 08:21 pm
it's about time - take note Swiderski
Maureen June 13, 2012 at 09:20 pm
So there you have it, Andy. We want a resolution that there will a matching reduction in police manpower over the term of the next PBA agreement. Troy will huff and Diviny will puff but in the end they will either have to vote in favor of the taxpayers or against them. Remember that you have been elected to serve the majority and not a special interest group. Looking forward to having you comment on this suggestion.
Phil June 13, 2012 at 11:08 pm
Hey Maureen the PBA is the police officers!! Don't hate the men and women who are out there 24/7 protecting our community..You say that you have a problem with "do-nothing town board members" yet you failed to name one! Tom Morr has done and said absolutely nothing about anything to do with this town! I know he is new but this is ridiculous! Think4urself: It's not neccessarily the residents that commit the crime you idiot! its the people passing through that these officers protect us from day in day out. For example the burglary ring that Orangetown solved last year that had people living in fear!
Phil June 13, 2012 at 11:16 pm
I'll answer that. 3 months ago a relative of mine suffered a heart attack. Orangetown police arrived within 3 minutes to find him unconscious with no pulse. After performing cpr on him my relative was revived and put in an ambulance is alive today. Stop hating and get a life.
Mike June 13, 2012 at 11:31 pm
@phil-no one here has written anything that shows "hate" towards out police officers or in any way devalues the services that they provide. All we are saying is that their pay and the corrupted system of arbitration is simply not sustainable for the Town and it's taxpayers to finance. When the average salary of an OPD officer is more than 2x that of the average resident, then something is wrong. As far as saving lives and doing other aspects of heir jobs, isn't this what we are paying for? Isn't this what we should expect? Now this does not mean it is not appreciated, but this s what their job entails. So please theatrics and straw man arguments really are not needed to solve this crisis. Mutual understanding a ns respect is what is needed. As is often said, it's not personal, it's business.
Maureen June 13, 2012 at 11:46 pm
Phil:
No one is against the individual police officer. One of my friends was Chief Schnakenberg in Clarkstown. My next door neighbor is a police officer. My church colleague is a police officer. Police officers are upstanding citizens. This discussion is about compensation. Compare their salary and benefits to that of a nurse in Nyack Hospital who save countless lives. Compare police income to the incomes of those living in the same community. That is the issue!
somecommonsense June 14, 2012 at 03:35 am
To Think4urself: Why don't YOU think for yourself, find some time for yourself, and do a little research on your asinine question: what do police officers in Orangetown do all day? I did research it, and here is a partial answer: They handle between 4 to 6 calls daily which include, but are not limited to aided (medical) calls, crimes (yes, generally minor things such as larcenies, graffiti, etc., but also an increasingly large amount of domestic calls and burglaries), traffic complaints and problems, accidents, traffic control at accidents and special events such as wakes, funerals, parades, bike races, etc., quality of life complaints, noise complaints and more. The average call takes a minimum of one half hour and others can take up to four hours. The officers then have to do paperwork for each and every call they respond to. Sometimes this is a State Incident Report, sometimes it is a Domestic Incident report, sometimes both. Arrests, of which there are several every day, require several hours of paperwork. This is standard state wide. The officers are also expected to address traffic conditions, which according to the Orangetown Police Records Dept, is the biggest complaint in town. If you had spent some time researching this, instead of spending your time insinuating that our police men and women do nothing, you wouldn't have had to pose your ridiculous question. Your anti- police stance is oh so obvious, as is the fact that no answer will satisfy you....
Pat June 14, 2012 at 03:54 am
4 to 6 calls a day!?!?!?!? During an 8 hour shift? You've got to be kidding me!
My god, they do make to much money. Thanks for doing the research but seriously, a waitress in a busy diner work harder than that.
somecommonsense June 14, 2012 at 07:45 am
You are kidding right? You actually thought the figure of four to six calls was the total for the entire shift? The number is four to six calls taken by EACH of the 8 to 10 officers assigned to patrol (times three shifts) and does not even include the calls for service taken by desk officers. Some of the calls can take up to four hours each..... Do the math please. These calls for service are in addition to the daily patrol duties they are assigned, including the afore-mentioned traffic control and responses to the deluge of traffic complaints the Records Dept. say they receive. These calls also require reams of paperwork which, according to this department's procedures, have to be finished on that shift. And waitresses in diners (whom I have great respect for) are not standing out on Rt. 303 directing traffic at accident scenes with cars whizzing by them like lunatics, or responding to violent domestic calls, or rolling around with drunken idiots in Pearl River and Nyack every weekend. What an outrageous comparison....Finally, while on the subject of math: according to the very open and accessible public records, there were over 100 officers in Orangetown prior to taking over the Village of Nyack. Now there are 82, with over four times the calls for service as there were back then. Again can you do the math, or are you just so intent on cop bashing that logic confounds your obviously uninformed opinions? Lord, I cannot get over the ignorance and bias in these comments
Thomas June 14, 2012 at 07:55 am
The total calls for service for the Orangetown Police Department have averaged 40,000 calls per year in recent years. That is approximately 100 calls per day/ 33 calls for each of the three shifts. With each shift putting 8 officers on patrol, that comes to slightly more than 4 calls for service per officer.
Mike June 14, 2012 at 09:53 am
And over that time period according to FBI crime states, the crime rate in Orangeteon has actually decreased. So if we continue to discuss statistics, we need to continue the workforce reductions as crime will continue to decrease. The point is, most with perhaps a few exceptions have never said the OPD does not provide a good service or that the individual officers are not good and hard working cops. We are saying that their pay has become too expensive for Town to manage. We are saying that the arbitration system is a corrupted one sided system designed to increase wages at a level significantly above what the Town can afford. We are saying to the Town leadership, you need to fix this. If the only tool left to them is workforce reductions, then that is the price we all will have to pay. $186,000 per year is in my estimation over valuation of the excellent services we receive especially if one compares to the PD about 15 miles to our SE....NYPD
Maureen June 14, 2012 at 10:27 am
SomeCommonSense???
We know that the police officers do the work that their job description requires. However, nurses in Nyack hospital work harder with a ton of paperwork for 1/3 the average salary of one of our police officers. If you want to do work comparisons for the police then compare the cozy streets of Orangetown to those of Newark or New York City and the corresponding calls received there. Any police officers that are laid off will find work there - doing more for less. As to the hours of paperwork an average salary of nearly $186,000 per year is outrageous for secretarial work. Right there I see a huge cost savings. Lay off desk officers and replace them with secretaries paid at the appropriate level. You can't run a police force when their average compensation approaches that of the Secretary of Defense. They have priced themselves out of our market. The question is what is our Town Board going to do about this? To date those who opine most and in my opinion grandstand the best at board meetings - I am referring to Diviny and Troy just to be perfectly clear - have remained silent in this public debate. Andy Stewart has commented a lot in Patch but I am beginning to find his silence in this debate somewhat disconcerting. But there is always the next election and this is one issue that is not going away. The town board needs to face this compensation issue head on IMMEDIATELY.
Phil June 14, 2012 at 12:07 pm
I believe Andy's Sterwart's quote" the average police officer in Orangetown makes 186,000" is quite an exaggeration in order to gain public sentiment to his side. I googled their entire departments 2011 salaries and only nulty, Zimmerman, and butter worth earned more than that number! The base salary for a top step officer was 104,374. If your going to bash police salaries lets at least not LIE about what they earn!
Maureen June 14, 2012 at 02:24 pm
Phil:
I apologize for loose English. I meant 'compensation' when I used the term 'salary'. That's the issue! This link was sent to me  https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhogpkmx1gs1q5p/backup_for_060512_Workshop_Meeting.pdf See page 9. Compare this with mine.  I'm retired - pension $25,000.  Another income of about $25,000 from my social security and I take out about $25,000 annually from my IRA.   I have no vacation, pay for my own health insurance and medicare and drugs.  I am going to lose my home because I can't afford my taxes.  I have lived in Rockland for nearly 40 years, been a good citizen, participated in charities such as Meals on Wheels to help my fellow citizens and the people I have helped for these many years say when I question the level of police compensation that it is "vitriol".   For shame! I invite others who live in Orangetown to run their own personal numbers against the average police officer in this document.  If you think that you are better off then tell Troy and Diviny to continue sitting on their hands.  That's what they want to do.  They take home some of my taxes in compensation to them and stand for nothing.  Clarkstown has lost control of its situation. We are not far behind.   Who is going to stand up for me in the town board when the PBA agreement comes up? It looks like Diviny and Troy won't.  Newbie Valentine looks like he needs his spine stiffened.  So far it's only Stewart and Morr in whom I have any hope.
Phil June 14, 2012 at 03:35 pm
Yes compensation is the issue and I'm telling you what is written in that resolution from Andy Stewart is absolutely not accurate and is at best an attempt to mislead people like you and have people like you cry out against the police officers, instead of putting blame where it truly lies!! It's dirty politics in my opinion. All of the cops info is able to be acquired by foil and I'm telling you Stewart's numbers are ridiculously off! He states the average officer gets 30 vacation days? That is not remotely accurate. Per their contract an officer doesnt reach 22 vacation days until they complete five years of service, and don't get to 28 days of vacation until they have 10 years of service and it stays that number for 20 years of service. Tell me how in a department of 84 members and only 30 of them have 20 yrs of service or more can possibly average 30 vacation days per year??? The answer is they can't. I guess someone failed the requirement of being a supervisor! At least tell the public the true numbers when toy are trying to slam your employees.
Phil June 14, 2012 at 03:37 pm
I guess someone failed the math portion of being a supervisor! Sorry for the typo.
Think4urself June 14, 2012 at 04:02 pm
Maureen is 100% correct in pointing out what the bloated police budget is doing to average citizens-for example, losing their homes. That's not police bashing, that's today's reality. I pay close to $1300.00 a year in taxes just for the Orangetown Police. Does the PBA want me to pay $1400.00 a year? Where does the madness end? I guess I'll have make sacrifices again in my family budget if the PBA wins arbitration. But what sacrifices are the police making? Are they endeavoring to cut, consolidate and streamline expenses or do they just rely on raising taxes. I don't think it's too much to ask in these dire economic times for the Orangetown Police to contribute to their medical care and pensions, like everyone else in the private sector. Here's a suggestion. According to "SomeCommonsense" tax money goes to police presence at parades,wakes and bike races. Is that really necessary? I believe responsible, civic minded adults could do the job just as well to defray some of the costs. Victor Hugo said "No army can stop an idea whose time has come." I believe major tax reform is that idea.
Phil June 14, 2012 at 05:21 pm
What sacrifices are the police making? When is the last time your job required you throw yourself in the middle of a bar full of drunks fighting and throwing bottles? How about performing CPR on a person not breathing? Or a 100 mph car chase? Why start with the police in looking for all these cuts? They are the only department in the entire town that work 24/7 and 365 days a year.
Think4urself June 14, 2012 at 06:27 pm
Police are paid to break up bar fights and perform CPR and they are paid well for that. So well, that Rockland County has the worst bond rating in NY State and is rated one level above junk status BTW, did you know that fishermen, loggers,pilots,roofers,trash collectors,truck drivers and miners all have more dangerous jobs than police. And, are generally paid considerably less than the police. For some reason though, I never hear those profession's whining.
somecommonsense June 14, 2012 at 10:43 pm
I have lived in Orangetown my entire life and know a good portion of the police department..... I have never heard one of them "whine" about their salaries or about the job they do. The only thing I have ever heard is how disappointed they are in the number of people who seem to hate them for no reason, constantly call them underworked and overpaid, and use them as a political football whenever there is a money crunch. Where are the nasty comments about the outrageous school taxes you pay? The screaming about government waste? Welfare fraud? Government sponsored projects in the hundreds of millions researching thoroughly useless nonsense? The politicians, greedy corporations, CEOs and Wall Street have to be having a collective laugh of immense proportions, because instead of blaming them for the economic collapse, the sheep are blaming cops, firemen, teachers and civil service. Unbelievable...
somecommonsense June 16, 2012 at 12:22 am
Fine professions all. And do they show up to give CPR to your sick family member or de-fib someone you love having a heart attack? Do they enforce laws to keep you and your loved ones safer and improve your quality of life? What a ridiculous comparison

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